While I was thinking about the choices Libby offered at the presentation the other night - link to the video - she mentioned that there were 4 types of libraries. She mentioned School District libraries, which she said that Irondequoit could not do, and she said that she even called to find out.....then she said there were two ways for the library to get more funding - the town can give them more money, or they can become their own legislative district, and she went into a long explanation of a legislative district and the process that would have to occur in order to become one.
Let's see....SD Library....that's one. Funded through the municipality...that's two. Funded through a legislative district....that's three. What is number four?
She never mentioned number four. That would be an "Association Library".
I was looking through the NYSL Division of Library Development content on the NYSED website and there was a ton of information on there for us to look at. I encourage you to visit the site and read all you can to become educated on the issues.
What is a Public Library District?
The four types of public libraries are:
Association Public - links to a map.
Municipal Public - links to a map.
School District Public - links to a map.
Special District Public - links to a map.
Fairport is an example (the only one in Monroe County) of a School District Public Library.
Churchville, Mumford, Scottsville, and Spencerport are examples of Association (Town) Libraries.
There are no Special Legislative District Libraries in Monroe County - they seem to be concentrated on Long Island/Ulster County/Albany area, and the closest one to Monroe County is in Cayuga County.
The other public libraries are either Town or Village Municipal.
See below pdf.'s for info and maps.
Public Library Types
Public Library Types Maps
Public Library Types Monroe County
Here are more links:
School District Public Library Model.
Steps for creating a School District Public Library.
Special Legislative District Public Library Model.
Steps for creating a Special Legislative District Public Library.
Association District Library Model. They do not provide a link for "steps for creating an association library district" - I wonder why?
10 comments:
I went to the workshop. I seem to distinctly remember Libby post mentioning Association Libraries.
Part 1 of 2:
I just watched the video of the meeting again
I was talking about the part in her presentation when she mentioned that there are 4 types of public libraries and she described SL in detail, that Irodnequoit is already a Municipal Library and the Town funds their budgets, and that Irondequoit can't become a School District Library - association wasn't mentioned until much later on when a resident asked about the disadvantages of a special legislative district and Libby mentions that it is a disadvantage to libraries that are already an Association library when they become a Municipal, School District, or Legislative District library because they would have to become civil service and that "bumps it up". She doesn't list it as a choice for Irondequoit and I don't even know if Irondequoit can go from a Municipal to an Association.....it wasn't clarified at the presentation - it wasn't offered as a choice.
At the 30:35 mark Libby talks about how to strengthen the funding of the libraries....she said in order to do that you can do 1 of 2 things - the Town can give more funds, or they can become their own special legislative district.
She mentions the School District and how Irondequoit can't do that...she called to find out....then at the 32:48 mark she mentions "4 types of public libraries" and mentions Municipal - what the libraries are now.
Then, she finished up her presentation at 35:11.
No mention of Association libraries.
Then, residents went up to speak, and the 3rd resident up to speak asks about how a Special Legislative District is different in funding and if there are any disadvantages to this type of funding - and Libby did mention "Association Library" as being at a disadvantage in becoming a SL District. It is never offered as a choice for Irondequoit. Here's what she said at the 43:28 mark;
Part 2 of 2:
"Let me go to the disadvantages first....because you're a municipal library you're already in civil service. A lot of libraries, like what are called Association Libraries...who...free standing not-for-profits...when they become either a School District or Special Legislative District library....they then have to go into civil service. So that, bumps things up. These folks are already in Civil Service, because they're a Municipal Library. So that part of things...that, that's the only real negative for a lot of libraries to not become a funding district library. What would happen is this....."
She then goes on to how the Legislative District works on voting on budgets etc. and what it would look like on your tax bill, and how much it might be, and will the town give more money - and yes it would be an additional tax on your tax bill....maybe a dollar a week....they're not talking about massive increases in the budget....then tax caps if they go through....
Another resident asks how many other libraries are this type of district (legislative) in Upstate NY - Libby said she "can't tell her offhand. I could go to a website and find out.....there are no Sp. Leg. Dist. in Monroe County, there is a school district, a couple of school districts....Fairport is a SD library....everything else is either Municipal or Association.....google nys division of library development...it'll get you to their site and all that information is on there..."
More residents speak - and the meeting ends.
So, from the presentation, I know that there are 4 types of libraries and Irondequoit is a Municipal Library right now, it cannot become a School District Library, and I know the basic process for becoming a Special Legislative District Library - and that the Library has to either get more money from the town or get more money by becoming a SL District.
Association Library wasn't offered as a choice....it wasn't even listed as one of the public types of libraries when she was talking about 4 types of public libraries.
I'd like to know if it can become an Association Library. Does Irondequoit have that choice?
What do you see as the advantages in going with the Association Library model? How would it improve the library for us? Would it save money for the town government? Would it cause the library to get more revenue for operations or for buildings? Perhaps they didn't discuss it much because the consultant recommended against it because it wouldn't benefit the library. Do you know how the association library works or how it would benefit us or are you just assuming that because she didn't mention it she must be hiding something? I mean she didn't discuss putting out tip jars to fund the library either. Doesn't mean it is a reasonable option. You know what I mean. You can't expect her to mention every possibility that would be a bad fit. I'm just wondering what your take is on this idea of what she didn't talk about.
Don't you think that these questions should have been addressed at the presentation?
Why are you asking deceptive, no-integrity, anti-library me? You're not paying me $24,000 to "keep both doors of the library open" and secure funding for the libraries. Ask the professional - the Consultant you hired to "inform and educate" us on all the options.
Association IS one of the 4 types of public libraries - but it wasn't mentioned by Libby when she was talking about it in her discussion of types of public libraries. She only mentioned 3.
The School District Library is not an option for Irondequoit - Libby called and asked, and Irondequoit can't do that - so why not also explain a little about Association Libraries? It wouldn't have taken more than 5 minutes to do that.
"I mean she didn't discuss putting out tip jars to fund the library either. Doesn't mean it is a reasonable option."
Actually, "tip jars" were mentioned by Stephanie Squicciarini towards the end of the meeting. They have "tubes" that are provided by the friends of the library - to make donations for programming - not to the general budget of the library.
Also, "Tip Jars" are not one of the 4 types of Libraries in NYS that Libby mentioned 3 of. There are 4 types as per Libby - we were told that Irondequoit is already Municipal, that it could go through the process of becoming a Special Legislative District, and it cannot become a School District Library. The other one is Association Public. There was no mention of it as a choice or a way to better fund the libraries.
Is it possible? That would be something I would expect the Library and/or Consultant to know and share with the residents.
"Do you know how the association library works or how it would benefit us..."
Now, why would deceptive, no integrity little ol' me know about such things?
Isn't that what you paid the Consultant for? Shouldn't the Consultant be telling you about the FOUR types of Public Libraries and the options for Irondequoit?
All about "truth, justice, and the American way. The last great bastion of Democracy. All about sharing information" and all that?
If you're all about securing funding for the PUBLIC LIBRARIES - then look at the pros and cons of ALL the options (which there are 4) for public libraries in NYS.
I never said she was hiding anything. You did. I said she did not mention Association relative to the discussion on the 4 types of Public Libraries.
If it's because Irondequoit can't become an Association Library, she could have explained that - like she explained in 10 seconds that Irondequoit can't become a SD Public Library.
No need to get so testy. I love the library. I come here almost every day. They are so nice to me here. I'm a senior living on a fixed income. I can't afford a PC and an internet hookup and the library has been instrumental in keeping me connected to the world. Sometimes I think you are being unfair in your zeal to uncover whatever you think you've uncovered which in my estimation is, so far, a whole lot of nothing. I have no problem with self appointed watchdogs such as yourself blogging about your opinions, it is the American way. You generally do a good job, I think. But the library delivers so much for such relatively low cost it is the greatest bargain of all time in my opinion. When you look at the town budget and what was driving the huge and rapid increases in it the library is one of the least to blame. Our tax burden has grown so fast and the library has received so little from it. It makes me sad. As for the Association thing I really thought maybe you knew something about it and why somebody night not want us to consider it. So basically then you too were just wondering why it wasn't covered in the report as an option to explore. Maybe they could explain if you asked them? I ask questions here all the time and usually get reasonable answers, it is their job after all. Sorry if you thought I was bring snarky. My time is almost up, gotta go now!
Dahling - where did I get testy?
I don't hate libraries, I think they provide a much needed service to the community.
So does the Fire, Police, Sewer, DPW, Parks and Rec. etc., and if I have to choose between sanitary sewers, and giving more money to the library.....I'm probably going to say "fix the sewers". I'm just being honest - don't bite my head off over it.
"As for the Association thing I really thought maybe you knew something about it and why somebody night not want us to consider it."
I do know a little bit about it because I read about it.
But, it's not up to me to tell you about it, is it?
If I did tell you about it, I would be accused of hating public service workers or something. It's always some label that I get slapped with.
I have a great idea - you can do what Libby said and google NYS Division of Library Development and educate yourself on all the options and all the things about libraries. Or, click the deceptive links that I put on the blogs with every ounce of integrity I do not possess. :)
Maybe Libby didn't tell you about Association because she's being paid to campaign, not educate the public about the choices that are out there.
A paid political consultant for the purpose of opening a dialogue with the public should be offering all the choices. The Library Board has a history of distortion on building projects and the public has not forgotten. Board Members offering comments such as as "we need to control the conversation" add nothing positive to the dialogue.
The Consultant made it clear in her presentation on 3-2-2011 that the Library Board would "Bring transparency in decision making to light" and "Rebuild trust with community".
If the Board wishes to regain the trust of the public they will make every effort to be open and transparent.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Im not an authority on this but from the materials you provide here and the other materials I have read on my own I wonder if the reason she didnt mention the association model at length is 2 fold: 1) the town owns 1 of the buildings and WISD owns the other bldg and 2) association librarians are not civil service and I would assume not in a union. The librarians who are civil service make much more than their counterparts of a non civil service branch. Check the salaries of those in that model.
Also, you mentioned the other day about why does Irondequoit need 5 more full time librarians and more part time librarians than say Greece; that is a question many have been asking for a while! In fact I believe many people have brought up the fact the town board has no say in how the library board spends the money they receive from taxpayers. The library board and director CHOOSE to pay more for salaries or a consultant than monies on materials and fixing up a library they hope will relocate. Finally, having more librarians (1,2,and 3) who require 3 months vacation (a little exageration) (but they are on a teachers schedule) require more of the same to cover for them while they are out. You cannot have a library running without the proper ratio of librarians (1,2 and3) clerks, pages, etc.
Good points, anonymous....but I think there is a way for Irondequoit to have an Association Library. Again, I'm not sure because the "experts" didn't say whether or not it's an option for Irondequoit.
I am not an authority on this either - but I would imagine that there would have to be a Petition for Dissolution of the libraries that are here now, and then the creation of an Association Library - which is shown at this link on chartering a public library.
From the link (association is a little more than halfway down the page):
Association Library
Education Law defines an association library as "a library established and controlled, in whole or in part, by a group of private individuals operating as an association, close corporation or as trustees under the provisions of a will or deed of trust." An association library is such a library "maintained for the benefit and free use on equal terms of all the people of the community in which the library is located." (Education Law §252.2)
To establish an association library, the following actions are necessary:
1. The association passes a resolution to establish a library and defines the area the library will serve.
2. The association elects 5-25 trustees to govern the library.
3. The trustees draw lots for terms of office that are staggered so that as nearly as possible an equal number expires each year. Thereafter trustees are elected or appointed for full terms of three or five years.
4. The board of trustees must seek and obtain funds to operate the library. An appropriation from a municipality or school district may be available through a contract for service. See Education Law §256.
5. The first board of trustees must apply to the Board of Regents for a library charter within 30 days. This application should be accompanied by a copy of the library's first-year budget.
6. Registration. [SEE: Registering a Public Library]
I could very well be wrong about this, and I don't want to be accused of spreading misinformation or being deceptive.....so I'll just wait until the Library and/or Consultant expands on this more so the residents can be fully informed and educated.
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