(2 Updated: 4/23/11 at 7:30am)
It can't be done.
Quite simply because it doesn't follow the rules and regulations as set forth in the Town Code for Irondequoit.
Bob Spatola was quoted in the recent article in the D&C saying: "Forever wild is fine but it's land that can be developed as long as they followed all the rules and regulations."
Well, according to the "rules and regulations" of the Town Code for R7 zoning, they can't develop that property as R7 because it's not a minimum lot area of 5 acres. Link to e-code for Town Codes - Chapter 235, Zoning - R7 is ARTICLE XXIII.
Town Code says that any R7 has to have a minimum lot area of 5 acres of net buildable area of the site as determined by the PB and their site capacity worksheet.
The article in the D&C also stated that the property is "roughly 5 acres". I don't know the exact acreage, but I am assuming that "roughly" could mean anywhere from 4.5 to 4.9 acres, which is not 5 acres. Which means that if you follow the rules, it can't be an R7, and you can't develop it as such. MPN had an article in March that listed the property at "just over 4.7 acres".
Consider that the site capacity worksheet will not include certain things in the "net buildable area", and that will take away from the already less than (minimum requirement of) 5 acres for an R7 zoning.
Just to clear up any rumors that may be floating around out there - R7 zoning is ONLY for independent and/or assisted-living communities and community-care facilities - changing the zoning to R7 doesn't mean a gas station can go there, or anything other than Independent/assisted living type facilities for seniors. That answer I can confirm, because it's in the Town Code. I can't confirm that there will be no COMIDA tax breaks for this development, although I have been told that they will not receive them.
Legacy has extremely tasteful buildings, and offer many fine services - they are a successful enterprise, and they provide a service for our senior community that deserves to be able to reside in that same community that they lived in for decades.
But only if the development follows the rules and regulations.
If I was a Town Board Member, I would vote "no" on changing the zoning. My major concern is if we were following a TOWN CODE that was put in place to protect residents. While I feel very strongly that Legacy offers very nice developments that consider neighbors when planning, and ARE very good neighbors themselves - this development does not follow the Town Code for R7 zoning. Period.
That, and the fact that the neighbors - the DIRECT neighbors - already fought against this in 2003, and STILL DON'T WANT IT there - I would seriously take their opinions into consideration when making my decision. The neighbors of the St. Paul Fire District - their opinions were taken into consideration. Same should be done for these neighbors.
I would vote "no". Not because I hate seniors, or I hate Legacy, or I'm against progress, or I just don't like change......it's because of the rules and regulations.
You know, the ones that regular old taxpayers like me have to follow to the letter?
UPDATE:
Speaking of taxpayers......
In reviewing the Public Hearing from the March 15th Town Board meeting again, I did hear Mr. Marasco point out that the site is only 4.73 acres and that it doesn't follow the Town Code for R7 - he then asks if there would be variances for the developer - and Mr. Riley affirms that there would have to be variances.
Also, during the public comment during the Public Hearing, the "General" went up to speak. Here is his full input:
"This project is the highest and best use for that site. Probably the only reasonable use for that site. You don't have to wonder how it would be built, or maintained, or operated. You already know how they build, maintain, and operate their buildings. The project will provide much needed tax revenue to the E.I.C.S.D. while adding no additional burden to the SD. The project will provide much needed dollars to the town, with little additional burden to the town. As the Supervisor said earlier, the town is almost completely developed and we badly need more economic development. This is a class developer. A class project. A needed project. It will add to the tax rolls a useless piece of property owned by the town. It will probably solve a severe drainage problem in the area. The trick is for you and your staff to help the developer get this project through in such a way as to alleviate the drainage and as to allay any fears of degradation in home values."
Nice input. Anyone on the Town Board care to explain how the General knows that the useless piece of property owned by the town will be added to the tax rolls?
That useless piece of property, which is owned by the taxpayers (the town) has not been brought forth in a public meeting for the taxpayers to discuss selling. How can he talk about that when it hasn't happened?
D&C article and Town Code pages are at the bottom of the blog.
Link to 1985 Master Plan.
Here is what the Town Code states are the lot and bulk requirements of the R7 zoning:
§ 235-148. Lot and bulk requirements.
A. The required lot size, yards and density shall be as follows:
(1) Minimum lot area: five acres of net buildable area of a site as determined by the Planning Board through a site capacity worksheet analysis pursuant to Article XI, § 235-47F of the Town of Irondequoit Code.
(2) Minimum front and rear yard: 75 feet.
(3) Minimum side yard: 50 feet or the building height, whichever is greater.
(4) Maximum density: to be based on a minimum net buildable lot area of 3,000 square feet per dwelling unit.
B. Building height. The maximum height of structures shall be 30 feet.
C. Impervious area ratio and building coverage.
(1) The maximum impervious area ratio shall be 60% of the net buildable area.
(2) The maximum building coverage shall be 25% of the net buildable area.
D. Dwelling size. The total floor area for a congregate dwelling unit shall be a minimum of 400 square feet for a one-bedroom unit plus 80 square feet for each additional bedroom, and the minimum floor area for an assisted-living unit shall be 280 square feet.
E. The maximum total building area including all accessory use areas and structures shall be limited to 1,000 square feet per dwelling unit, including any habitable space in the basement.
Here's what it states about parking:
The required parking shall be a combination of:
A. One parking space for each employee on the premises at the maximum shift; plus
B. One parking space each for any vehicles used in the project; plus
C. One parking space for every 10 assisted living units; plus
D. One parking space for every one independent congregate living units;
E. Two parking spaces for each independent detached, semidetached or townhouse unit;
F. Visitor parking at the rate of one parking space for every 10 living units, including service and delivery vehicles.
Here's the D&C article about Legacy.
Senior housing project debated in Irondequoit
Here's the E Code pages of the Town Code dealing with R7 zoning:
ECode R7
UPDATE 1:
Looks like Cranberry Landing is owned by COMIDA:
(To view the property, go to the Monroe County Real Property Portal and click "I agree", then click on "Search Non-Residential Properties", and then click on "Pay/View Taxes" and type in 300 Cranberry lndg 14609, select "Irondequoit" from the drop down menu, and click "search for property".)
Will the proposed development on Titus get COMIDA assistance as well? Won't that limit the amount of "revenue" to the town? Less taxes paid by the developer means not so much "revenue" to the town, right? I have heard that Cranberry only provides about $30,000 in "revenue" to the town. Is it worth alienating all of those longtime (full) taxpaying residents around the Titus Ave. area for a measly $30,000 dollars in revenue?
UPDATE 2:
Looks like Cranberry challenged their assessment in 2008 - they were assessed at over $10 million in 2008......they petitioned, and according to the final 2010 assessment rolls (the valuation date was in July 2009), Cranberry is now assessed at $6 million. That's over a $4 million reduction in assessment. Guess what that means? LESS revenue to the town in taxes, and along with COMIDA tax breaks - really doesn't mean a lot of revenue to the town in taxes.
Here's the 2008 petition with what Cranberry was originally assessed at:
Here's the papers on Cranberry's Assessment Settlement:
Cranberry Settlement 1-16 Pages
Here's the 2010 final assessment roll:
Link to 2010 Final Assessment Roll.
I know a lot of residents challenged their assessments - but did they get an almost 50% reduction in their assessments? Methinks not. Cranberry Landing, was originally assessed in 2008 at $10,310,000. In 2010, they got a $4,310,000 reduction in their assessment for Cranberry Landing. Either the assessor is incompetent (a $4 million error?), or Cranberry got a sweeeeeeet deal - to pay less taxes.
Too bad regular ol' taxpayers don't get such sweet deals.
I don't know about anyone else - but this type of "economic development" really doesn't make any sense to me. We change codes, anger neighbors, and cry that Irondequoit NEEDS this development for "revenues" to the town......and then we reduce their "revenues" significantly by giving them generous tax breaks and generous lower assessments.
Except homeowners. Their assessments keep going up, up, up - and if they challenge their assessments they might see a small reduction. Certainly not an almost 50% reduction, and they don't get COMIDA breaks either.
That kind of economic development I could do without. If the developers get all the breaks - homeowners eventually make up for all those breaks to developers in higher and higher property taxes.
My back is starting to hurt - and I'm getting really sick of developers getting all the deals and reaping all the benefits while our property taxes go higher and higher to pay for services that residents use - and then municipalities have to cut them in order to meet their budgets - but then give millions in tax "incentives" to developers.
What a clusterf&*% of insanity.
31 comments:
I wonder why the planning board didn't bring up the 5 acres that are needed in R7? Kind of weird. There was no discussion of that matter at all.
I also have to wonder why this was voted against years ago but the developer went on to buy the property anyway?
I also wonder if COMIDA and tax breaks are going to be part of this deal?
There are many questions still out there that need to be answered so it was in my opinion, a good move to table still.
I think it shouldn't be tabled for long. The resolution is about changing the zoning - the parcel is less than 5 acres and R7 requires a minimum of 5 acres for net buildable area, therefore, you cannot vote to approve the change in zoning, because it does not follow Town Code.
Unfortunately for Legacy, that is the Town Code.
I watched the meeting, interested in the public input as I figured it would be about the workshop at some point - I just want to point out that RSM, when lobbying for Newport showed up at the very same workshop meetings and were able to speak and "sway the board" with their speeches and drawings. Nobody had a word to say about that way back when.
Workshops are public meetings where minutes are recorded. I am pretty sure that there is no public input at the workshops, and I'm also pretty sure that developers can show up at random and do some public relations and lobby for their cause at any time at the workshops. Doesn't mean I think it's right that they do that.....but they do, and as far as I know it is perfectly legal for them to do that....even though public input is not done at workshops.
Another reason why I think an open, honest government would have these workshops recorded just like regular town board meetings.
Anyways.... I think all the questions on the actual development are premature since it hasn't been approved for the zoning change, and I don't see how they can approve it since it isn't the required minimum 5 acres of net buildable area to begin with.
Either approve the zoning change which violates town code, or vote against it. It's a simple resolution.
I also think that if I was a developer, I wouldn't be investing money in professional drawings on a property that I may not get the zoning for - so I don't think they have to show any drawings until the zoning is approved - which again, I don't think it can be approved because of the town code.
Gotta follow the rules and regulations.
I really don't like workshops. Never have. I wish they would eliminate Planning and Town Board workshops totally.
Sure they are open meetings but they aren't recorded and they give the applicant the chance to schmooz but the public can't speak.
The Newport developer had meetings in the Supervisor's office with 2 to 3 planning board members at a time back when Heyman was Supervisor. How ethical was that? RSM came many times to workshops for planning board and on and on they spoke with no public input.
I have to wonder why the planning board didn't ask one question about the lack of acreage per code? They made a positive recommendation on an application that doesn't have the requirements per code.
Why did it even go to them if they weren't going to discuss legal matters pertaining to R7? Master plan and town code weren't discussed at all.
Which brings me to why didn't the planning board attorney advise the planning board to speak about these matters?
A whole bunch of questions.....
"Why did it even go to them if they weren't going to discuss legal matters pertaining to R7? Master plan and town code weren't discussed at all.
Which brings me to why didn't the planning board attorney advise the planning board to speak about these matters?"
I wonder about that too.....but then again....I remember how Newport was handled. RSM just asked to delay from March for a year, but PB said 6 months for now and if they need an extension they'll give them one. Had to hurry up and approve that though.
lol Town Code is pretty clear on the R7 zoning. I really don't know how they could approve it on that point alone.
Too bad the PB didn't advise the TB of that with their glowing recommendations of this proposed project.
Newport just needed an extension because they haven't built anything in a year yet.
That was another one of those "we have to hurry up and get our shovels in the ground projects."
It is to bad that the planning board didn't do their due diligence and that counsel from planning didn't even bring up the 5 acre requirement. What is he getting paid for?
Code should be a basic discussion for planning.
I stand corrected on Newport. I just saw an article in MPN about Newport "getting under way". They just demolished the old restaurant.
Also, the reason RSM asked for the extension was because the DEC conducted some historical review of the site - which turned up nothing apparently - and RSM had to wait for that before getting under way.
What's going on with Lighthouse Pointe? Anyone hear anything on that?
Over a year after planning board approval the Newport House is finally demolished.
The historical review was completed some time ago. With the weather getting better we should see swift development happening soon. RSM was recently approved a 6 month extension. We'll be waiting and watching.
If you do venture down Newport please remember to tip toe! Ha
Haven't heard a word on Lighthouse Pointe.
The town needs development and this is a good project. It just does not fit in the location they have chosen. I suggest the developer sell the parcel on Titus and purchase the 11 acre parcel on Densmore, across from the middle school, and move forward. This parcel has enough land to accomodate the proposal. It is still in Irondequoit. It has enough land and trees to buffer the project on both sides of the parcel from the neighbors. Could be a win-win for all parties.
Just a thought.
Greg -
Thank you for your comment, and your suggestion. I agree.
The town DOES need development - just not at the expense of area residents, and not by disregarding Town Code (or ancient Master Plans).
I wish Legacy would build in my neighborhood. I think they provide such a needed service, and their developments are always tasteful and add to a community.
I still don't see how it could be done on Titus though - there's not enough acreage to be R7, and that is a rule and regulation set forth in the Town Code.
I wonder why the Planning Board did not catch that when making their recommendation to the Town Board?
Actually, I am hearing the planning board members did catch that but were told the Town is thinking of selling the Legacy an acre of land to accomodate the R7 requirements. Funny that no one is bringing this up.
I am with you though, what ARE these attorneys getting paid for? And what about our board members? Who are they supposed to be representing? The residents or the businesses?
We do need businesses in our town. More than just rent a centers, pawn shops, diners and pizza parlors.
One other thing, I keep hearing that the Legacy is "providing a much needed service," could you explain that to me please? What is the "service" they are providing?
Housing for seniors at $2000 to $3500 a month? How many seniors can afford that "service?"
"Actually, I am hearing the planning board members did catch that but were told the Town is thinking of selling the Legacy an acre of land to accomodate the R7 requirements. Funny that no one is bringing this up."
Actually, I heard that rumor too. But, right now, it is just a rumor. No sale of any Town owned land has happened yet (as far as I know) and the Planning Board had before them a parcel of land that was LESS THAN 5 acres - they all gave a glowing approval for the Town Board to approve the zoning change - which violates Town Code.
The Planning Board never mentioned the Town Code for R7 zoning at their meeting. Not once. Didn't mention the Master Plan either. They just all approved it.
Why bother having a planning board if they can't look at a town code or a master plan for development?
Don't get me started on Mr. Planning Board attorney either. Ugh.
"One other thing, I keep hearing that the Legacy is "providing a much needed service," could you explain that to me please? What is the "service" they are providing?
Housing for seniors at $2000 to $3500 a month? How many seniors can afford that "service?""
Well - my opinion only - I think they provide assisted living in the communities that the seniors lived in for decades. Tasteful abodes that offer "on site" services. If a senior was living in their own house, their property taxes alone would be more than $3,000 a month (plus phone, RG&E, water, maintenance etc.), so, I think they could afford to be in an assisted living facility for that amount as well. Maybe not all seniors could afford living at Legacy, but I think a majority could.
I honestly think Legacy is great. As long as they follow the rules and regulations. Town Code does not allow R7 zoning for anything under 5 acres. What Legacy owns right now, at the moment of the Public Hearing on changing the zoning, is not 5 acres.
If I was a Town Board member, I would have to vote "NO" on changing the zoning. It doesn't follow Town Code. Period.
Good grief - I put "their property taxes alone would be $3,000 a month."
Um, no. lol A year maybe, not month. Sorry.
The seniors can have a non senior living with them in the assisted living facility - or two seniors could live together.
Not all seniors could afford to live at Legacy and pay that much money a month - but I think a majority could.
With a roomie, it can be affordable.
Actually I think the Legacy IS lovely but it is not assisted living. It is independent. As soon as you need assistance you are booted out. You CAN have a nurse come in, at your expense mind you but no it is not assisted living.
Also, it is my understanding that while you COULD have a senior live with you you cannot have a non senior live with you. The "rent" is based on studio, 1 bdrm or 2 and the 2 bdrm being the most expensive (of course)
Also, when I was looking there a few months ago for my mother in law, there was no wait list, you could move right in. Not so for lower income independent living. 500 plus waitlist. So to me THAT would be a service our town needs.
I just watched the TB meeting of the Public Hearing from March 15th again, and at around the 1:45 mark, Marasco asks Don Riley about the acreage - says it is 4.73 acres which doesn't follow the Town Code for R7 - then he mentions that they would ask for a variance to be able to build their project there.
Oh reallllllly?
Why bother having Town Codes then?
Just do whatever whenever and wherever and the hell with the town codes that protect taxpaying residents.
Not to mention, the ancient Master Plan - which is a LEGAL document - apparently says that this area is to remain R1 residential.
To hell with it.
"Also, when I was looking there a few months ago for my mother in law, there was no wait list, you could move right in. Not so for lower income independent living. 500 plus waitlist. So to me THAT would be a service our town needs."
I totally agree with you on that. Definitely a service any Town would need.
"Also, it is my understanding that while you COULD have a senior live with you you cannot have a non senior live with you"
I just looked at the Town Code for R7 zoning - and you are correct that Legacy is proposing Independent living, not assisted living facilities on Titus - but the Town code says for R7 zoning (235-146) that "each housing unit shall be occupied by at least one senior citizen (62 years or older)", and that a "non senior may reside with a senior citizen partner" - so I am assuming they can have a roomie to help with the costs.
I wish you luck in finding accommodations for your Mother-in-law. I know how hard it can be to find a safe place that is affordable and nice for seniors.
We (my sisters, brother, and I) would have had to go through that too, and we did have our Mom on a waiting list - but unfortunately both my parents died within a year of each other a few years ago, so we never had to go through that.
I think Greg's suggestion is a good one. It's not that the residents don't want Legacy anywhere in Irondequoit......just not on Titus where it violates Town Code and the Master Plan, and where the residents in the area already fought against it in 2003.
How many times do they have to fight this?
Greg said: "I suggest the developer sell the parcel on Titus and purchase the 11 acre parcel on Densmore, across from the middle school, and move forward."
I know this parcel very well since it is in my backyard. The parcel is close to 12 acres but only about 7 acres are buildable.
I am not opposed to them building a Legacy on this property with proper buffers for all of us that are neighbor's to the property. It is zoned R1 because just like on Titus, it is in a neighborhood. Houses are on either side of the property and the Middle School is across the street.
Not sure what I think of 3 stories though. Even the Middle School is only 2. A building of 3 stories in an R1 neighborhood kind of towers over the houses.
I think it would be kind of weird for them to pick this location because it is a stones throw from Cranberry Landng though.
I would hope if this ever became a possibility on Densmore, that the Legacy owners would embrace the neighbors and show pictures of the project early on. I think it's pretty sad that neighbors on Titus weren't shown that courtesy.
I really would welcome another Legacy in our neighborhood.
Foiling for irondequoit said; "Don't get me started on Mr. Planning Board attorney either. Ugh."
I'll second that! He takes his cues from the developer. He sure isn't on the side of the residents and doesn't offer much advice to the board ever.
Master plans, Bay Harbor Management plans etc. shouldn't even exist because the boards we have in the town choose to ignore the advice of these plans anyway.
Why bother?...
I was surprised to see that Cranberry Landing recieved COMIDA breaks. Actually, I dont know why Im surprised.
I would think a lot of this could be settled if we didnt have outdated master plans (over 25 years old) and we were privy to the conversations between the developer, the manager and the board members. They arent stupid, especially since of the current town board members, 2 were previous planning board members (though in my opinion it should have gone to the zoning board NOT the planning board. (yet) And one of them is a real estate attorney.
We DO know they have met, long before the workshop. We DO know that the less than 5 acres has been discussed. What we DONT know is how they are going to remedy that situation. (They must have a remedy because why else would they all agree to let it get this far?)
But lets just table something else. How about just 1 of them being a leader, just 1.
I am sooooo tired of being told how thoughtful this board is (and how the supervisor cant even make a wallpaper decision in 10 years) and we expect her to finish the master plan, make thoughtful proposals and decisions regarding our community.
I want a do-over on all of them.
Think you're surprised now? Wait until you see that Cranberry Landing also got over a $4 million reduction in their assessment in 2009.
That means less taxes. Along with COMIDA breaks - it isn't much at all to the town in revenue.
What kind of tax breaks and tax incentives have you and I received?
If you challenged your assessment, did you get an almost 50% reduction in your assessment?
If I improve my property by adding on an addition, or hiring local labor to build, maintain, or operate my property.....will I get COMIDA "incentives"?
Nope.
I just get my property taxes raised every year to make up for the developers who aren't paying their fair share. According to the Town Website Assessment page:
Why Are Property Assessments Important?
Property assessments are necessary to equitably distribute the tax burden among all property owners based upon the market value of their property. Properties are appraised so that some of the costs associated with providing services, such as public education, fire and police protection, roads and utilities, can be allocated to property owners in proportion to the market value of their individual properties.
I guess millionaire developers are exempt from the "burden" of paying equitable taxes on their properties.
Cheri -
"Not sure what I think of 3 stories though. Even the Middle School is only 2. A building of 3 stories in an R1 neighborhood kind of towers over the houses."
According to § 235-148. Lot and bulk requirements, B
"B. Building height. The maximum height of structures shall be 30 feet."
I'm guessing that a 3 story building with a roof on top is going to be a little more than 30 feet in height.
But, who cares? It's only a Town Code, and this is a developer we're talking about - they don't have to follow town codes apparently.
Plus, the planning board recommended that the Town Board change the zoning from R1 to R7 - and they must know that the building would be more than the maximum 30 ft. in height - so it must be ok to do that.....you know.....since the Planning Board gave a glowing recommendation to the Town Board to do this.
I wonder who wrote the resolution this time? lol
Wow, those are some eye-opening updates on FOILS. I had no idea that Cranberry Landing is only paying around $30,000 a year in taxes. I also had no idea they had their assessment reduced by 4 million! Unbelievable!
Glad that us little old taxpayer's can pick up the slack for them. ;)
Foiling for Irondequoit said;
"Plus, the planning board recommended that the Town Board change the zoning from R1 to R7 - and they must know that the building would be more than the maximum 30 ft. in height - so it must be ok to do that.....you know.....since the Planning Board gave a glowing recommendation to the Town Board to do this.
I wonder who wrote the resolution this time? lol"
The planning board had NO conversation about height or the lack of 5 acres required for R7. 2 BASIC questions. They only went on and on about how wonderful it all is. Tripping over eachother to make the motion and second it. No public input was allowed. My kind of meeting - NOT!
I bet I could guess who wrote the resolution FOILS. wink-wink.
I think the residents should have to be made aware of every property and business that gets comida breaks. It effects school districts, the town as far as sewers, fire, lighting, etc and you are right; i have never had my assessment go down or my taxes go down. In fact, my escrow payment is currently the SAME as my mortgage payment. Its crazy.
What is more sad is that people (inc me) complain about the kinds of businesses that keep coming to Irondequoit, it will only continue to get worse if we dont begin to curtail the numbers of these establishments.
We need vision in this community and realistic goals and plans. I cant remember the last time I saw anything even close to real plans and visions. I feel like Irondequoit is on a turntable and the record keeps getting stuck. sigh.
Anonymous,
I would like to know all of the establishments in Monroe County that receive COMIDA tax breaks. I think taxpayer's would be surprised with that information.
Real plans and visions cost money and we have none. We are over 98% developed in Irondequoit, that is a difficult dilemma for any Supervisor.
I don't feel like we are on a turntable in Irondequoit. I'm very thankful that the Heyman crew is gone because we were really on a disastrous road financially with them.
Mary Joyce and this Town Board cut the budget by 1 million dollars. That is HUGE!
Our taxes were not raised this year because of those cuts. We were also audited by the Democratic Comptroller (DiNapoli)which exposed a bunch of what Heyman's mis-management and over spending was doing to our Town.
MJD could have ran with the dirt that was found but instead she took the high road.
I also feel much better about Town government on a whole because it isn't as partisan and nasty. Totally different than past years.
So on a whole I don't think we are on a turntable there are many things that are happening for the better.
I'm hoping that the Legacy situation will be dealt with in the same manner. We aren't off to a very good start, especially with the planning board but nothing is written in stone yet.
Time will tell...
If you want to know who is getting COMIDA assistance - this link will take you to the COMIDA page where they have their press releases dating back to January 2007.
Thank you foils, that info blows me away! Does ANYONE pay taxes anymore except the little people???
Cheri, I disagree. While i think it always sounds good that taxes werent raised, I dont know if fiscally that was a good decision. Eventually the piper will have to be paid. Also, a million dollars wasnt cut. That was mentioned at a meeting but it was in error and later corrected (but it sure sounds good) Roughly $400k was cut from the budget and I am not saying its god or bad (right now) but I think you are already seeing the effects of these cuts and even more to attrition.
Did you get the letter seeking donations regarding the Memorial Day parade? How big of an honor is it to see a day where we pay respect to those who fought for our country. Last I heard they were still over $5000 short. And they are falling WAY short of donations for the 4th of July event.
Code enforcement isnt being effectively maintained, town wide clean up isnt looking good,no one is paying attention to the rental registry, plowing was down all over town because they increased the inches needed to facilitate plows. Police are down by more than 11 officers with no academy in site.
Parks and rec is down by over 25 employees. (summer rec help)
How much money has been brought in for grants?
No one likes taxes, but can we afford what we currently have/had? We shall see.
This town is our home. We all love it and I think we all want whats in the best interest of the entire community but I think you would have to agree when health costs are skyrocketing, when we have had many officers retire (with large buyouts) when pensions are increasing astronomically, revenues are down~being honest something has to give. Lets just be honest about that.
I do agree with Cherie regarding our town is 98% built up and there isnt much room for expansion in the revenue front but that is why we need to entice good businesses to Irondequoit. Fill some of the building that have been vacant for years. How about building lower income senior housing on the already tax exempt properties of the now closed churches in Iron.
I love what this administration is finally doing in Seabreeze, lets see if that can be contagious towards Ridge Culver, Empire, and Titus Hudson.
Happy Easter.
As I look thru the comida list you linked I have to wonder how this is effective. How do the tax payers REALLY benefit from these. By the 2 or 3 jobs they bring? It says all labor has to be local; does anyone really oversee that or is it like the water authority, the housing authority, the sports authoriy and the airport authority?!!!
I know people who open businesses, I am sure you do too. How many bars, restaurants, stores do you see listed? once again it seems to be who you know and how you can afford the grease the wheel.
Anonymous said; " Also, a million dollars wasnt cut. That was mentioned at a meeting but it was in error and later corrected (but it sure sounds good)"
I'd like to know when that was corrected? To my knowledge the budget was cut by a million dollars, if you could please link where that was corrected I'd like to see it. Thanks.
Anonymous said; "Police are down by more than 11 officers with no academy in site."
And we are coping aren't we? The Mall only has 2 open stores plus Target and our population from the census is down.
Anonymous said; "plowing was down all over town because they increased the inches needed to facilitate plows."
I didn't have any problems with the way the streets were plowed this winter. We had a pretty harsh winter too and I think they did a great job. :)
Anonymous said; "Did you get the letter seeking donations regarding the Memorial Day parade?"
I didn't get a letter seeking a donation and none of my friends and family did either.
Those letters (which I have not seen) probably went to businesses in the Town. I don't have a problem with places sponsoring to cut costs of parades and functions. The Farmer's Market has been doing that for years....
I applaud MJD and the current TB for trying to figure out how to cut costs and change some things.
Everyone is doing that in their own households. Wegmans is now only printing their Sunday ad twice a month instead of weekly, to try to keep prices the same on 40 popular items that families buy. Times have changed and we have to adjust.
I give MJD and this TB credit for not raising taxes this year. They could have easily done that and like past politician's this was the year to rasie taxes because it wasn't an election year.
She could have had a little padding for this years budget. But she didn't, to me that says she cares about the residents MORE than she care about
the politics.
How refreshing!
Anonymous said; "Fill some of the building that have been vacant for years."
I'm sure if it was so easy to fill up the open store fronts, past administrations would have. What did we get from 4 years of Heyman, Bello and Evans.. a Hampton Inn!?
Anonymous said; "This town is our home. We all love it and I think we all want whats in the best interest of the entire community but I think you would have to agree when health costs are skyrocketing, when we have had many officers retire (with large buyouts) when pensions are increasing astronomically, revenues are down~being honest something has to give."
EXACTLY, something does have to give. I applaud this administration for thinking outside of the box and cutting costs!
All companies and households are tightening their belts the Town of Irondequoit is no different!
Irondequoit 2010 adopted budget.
Irondequoit 2011 adopted budget.
Greece 2011 adopted budget for public safety.
Greece has a population of about 96,000 and they have 99 FT officers with benefits which amount to about $15 million for the officers salary and benefits, equipment, and contracted services....and after their revenues are taken out, it costs the taxpayers about $9.1 million in the levy.
Irondequoit has a population of about 51,000 and they have 52 FT officers with benefits (Down 7 from 2010) which amounts to about $9 million for all the same things that Greece had included........and after their revenues are taken out, cost the taxpayers about $8.8 million to the tax levy.
But, if you look at Greece's revenue - they have in there about $4 million in "indirect revenue" (whatever the hell that means) and a $1.7 share of a fund balance.
Greece's population and number of officers works out to about 1 officer for every 1,000 people.
Irondequoit's population and number of officers works out to about 1 officer for every 1,000 people.
Pretty much the same. Greece is located near the city and shares a border with the city as does Irondequoit.
Budget Expenses were cut about $600,000 from 2010 to 2011 - the real estate tax levy stayed about the same - the valuation went down about $2.6 million from 2010 to 2011 - and the tax rate per $1,000 A.V. stayed the same.....$6.51.
The plowing - as far as I know from the link on the Town Website - they plow the sidewalks when there's three inches or more. Same as it always has been.
Parks & Rec - went from 11 FT to 9 FT from 2010 to 2011.....For Seasonal employees they got rid of an office clerk, 1 area supervisor(from 2 to 1), 4 playground directors (from 7 to 3), got rid of the playground assistant director, 4 playground counselors (from 16 to 12), 1 camp director (from 5 to 4), got rid of the camp assistant directors (from 5 to 0), 1 camp counselor (from 17 to 16), got rid of the swim staff (from 7 to 0), increased a bus driver (from 4 to 5), got rid of 2 seasonal laborers (from 8 to 6), got rid of the PT nutrition aide (from 1 to 0), and added an arts and crafts specialist. They went from 97 FT, PT, & Seasonal employees to 69 total.
As far as the "letter" - I know of no regular homeowner who got a letter asking for donations for parades and such. I thought it was the business community that was asked to step up and sponsor those events....and why not? What's the big deal?
As you are well aware of I'm sure....the recent audit and the Moody's financial outlook for Irondequoit was not favorable - drastic, austere budgets have to be crafted when a town has no money.
Gonna have to just live with that until the financial health of the town is better.
Eventually, property taxes will have to be raised to cover all those salaries and benefits that keep rising higher and higher....and if the residents want parades and camp counselors and mega police....then they'll have to pay for it with higher taxes.
Considering how bad the financial picture looked for Irondequoit....I think people should be thankful it wasn't worse than it was/is.
Cheri had written -
Wow, those are some eye-opening updates on FOILS. I had no idea that Cranberry Landing is only paying around $30,000 a year in taxes. I also had no idea they had their assessment reduced by 4 million! Unbelievable!
I was told (a matter of days ago) that Cranberry Landing only (*currently*) generated 10K towards the tax base ... not that 30K is anything to rave about, but its better - a 4M-dollar reduction in assessment is "unbelievable" indeed.
I am also of the opinion that this should never have gotten past the PB ... the acreage - it should have been addressed prior to being referred to the TB ... it could have been better handled - they should have stuck to the issue of zoning before 1/2 the town was allowed to become in an uproar. What the hell is going on in that Broderick room lately - if not the PB members, Aureli should have caught this ... it was either an over site on his part (gross over site) or, he did have knowledge of it - and allowed it ... either way, I think he should hold some responsibility.
@Jax - I opt. for you to have a raise (I am putting that in the FOILS suggestion box) ... you've earned it - great information, thank you ... as always, you don't skip a beat.
"@Jax - I opt. for you to have a raise (I am putting that in the FOILS suggestion box) ... you've earned it - great information, thank you ... as always, you don't skip a beat."
lol Why, thank you! Some popcorn to go along with my peanuts. Yay!
I think the residents off of Titus have a ton more information than I do - they went through this already in 2003, and I think there's a blog out there about the R7 zoning...getting people to sign a petition against the current proposal with other information. Here's a link to it.
I'll have to share my popcorn. :(
http://www.irondequoitpost.com/features/x1950127761/Irondequoit-American-Legion-Post-134-asks-for-public-support-of-parade
I wonder how people feel about this? How will residents feel if there isnt enough money raised for the 4th of July? Did you REALLY want this cut from the budget? 2 things that have actually been fabulous about our town for decades?
I wonder how residents feel about not having a choice at the polls this November? Still nothing about how well everyone gets along? not bobbleheads with this group?
I think its time to get serious here. And yes, there is STILL no movement, no demo, nothing at Medley. Sigh.
PS @Jax, thank you for all of the great comida info, I struggled for a while trying to find the same info you provided (seemingly with ease) I appreciate it.
It would be a shame if there is no July 4th event....but I hope that the business community and even regular folks in the community can help out this year. It's a shame that the American Legion has to go back to raising the funds themselves (like they used to)....but, it is what it is.
When I say that I like that they all get along.....it's because it's a mixed board that gets along - I don't want them to always agree and be "bobbleheads"....just be nice to each other at the meetings, and work together for the Town. Yes, the last administration all got along because they were all Democrats. Do you remember how nice it was previously when 2 Republicans were on the board with 3 Democrats? Me neither.
I am glad that Republicans and Democrats can get along and work together. I'd like to see more of it all over the state.
If there is anything you need to find and you are having trouble finding it - please do not hesitate to send a message through here and ask, and I'll see what I can do to help out.
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