Wayyyyyyyy back on February 11th, I did a blog about a FOI request regarding e-mails between Tim Poley and the Supervisor and Town Board. It was stated on a couple of invoices that there were e-mail exchanges concerning Kings Park. You can read all of the FOI information (from January) by clicking here. (Please notice that on the documents that are labeled "Purchase Order & Claim Voucher" - "temporary" is xxx'd out. The Senior Center wasn't going to be a "temporary" move.) The two invoices that mention e-mails are below:
A FOI request was sent in for the e-mails. It was denied because there "are no e-mails from Tim Poley for the time requested."
The resident asked that the Supervisor sign off on this, because the invoice states that there were e-mails, but the denial states that there are no e-mails from Tim Poley.
Apparently, the Town Attorney feels it is necessary to "cover" for the Supervisor, and is taking the blame for not getting back to the resident sooner, and questions why the need for a "sign off" on this denial. It's a pretty simple FOI request. There are invoices. On those invoices are stated general e-mail between Tim Poley and the Supervisor and Town Board. Those are the e-mails that are being foiled. That is the "scope". Two invoices stating e-mails, those e-mails are being requested. I'm sure if it were three invoices, it would be a hat-trick, and much easier to find them.....right, Mr. Malgieri?
Here are the e-mails on this simple subject. (Guess sunshine week is over?)
This was forwarded to me, and I'm not a fan of "forwarded" e-mails only because I don't trust that they are "real". I have it from a good source though, that this is the "real deal".
It is refreshing that a Board Member takes the responsibility of correcting a mistake by apologizing for it. I respect that. I wish more government officials were like that. I wish it was a more "public" apology than an e-mail, but....hey...beggars can't be choosers, right? :)
I find it surprising (not really) that there has been no such apology from the Supervisor, or Councilwoman Aldersley for their public misinformation. Contrary to what the Supervisor states, the Town has not "always claimed" they own 1.89 acres at Pinegrove. I have not seen it in print anywhere but on their Town Website, buried in a paragraph in the middle of more information about CDBG, Senior Center, and Kings Park information. It wasn't stated on the video, that the Supervisor put out (paid for by the taxpayers mind you), in any articles where she was quoted about the room to expand at Pinegrove, or in her "facts sheet".
There have been a few instances where people have incorrectly referenced something during public input, and the Supervisor corrects them. I can click on any of the YouTube links on the right hand side of the page here, and during any given meeting, the Supervisor corrects anyone who states incorrect information.
The Supervisor has never corrected anyone during public input, or Town Board Member Aldersley at a Town Board meeting, when they claimed that the Town only owns 5 ft. around the building. Not once.
I think Supervisor Heyman and Councilwoman Aldersley owe the residents an apology for their misinformation.
I doubt it will happen.
At least one board member "did the right thing". Too bad about being given incorrect information and was never told the correct information until a resident produced the deed to the property, that I'm sure they all had a look at during some point in time the past 3 or 4 years.......
Town Board meeting from 12/16/08. Resident (now Planning Board Member) specifically says "5 ft on a footprint? Please. It doesn't work."
Also mentions that it's not right for seniors to be going up and down stairs on a multi level building. (Uh.....elevator? Ever hear of one? Greece has one for their senior center. Kings Park is two stories and has elevators.)
(Apologies for the choppiness of the audio, it's the best we could do with the DVD.)
I love this clip. It's delicious. I think it deserves a replay.
The subtle jangling of her bracelets as she motions with her hand while she states that "We don't own any more than just the building and 5 ft. of land around it...."
I get goosebumps just listening to it. Not because she was caught telling residents an outright lie......oh no.....that just makes me smile.
I get goosebumps when I'm frightened. I am frightened because I can't believe a word that comes out of that mouth ever again. I can't. I mean, I believed her, and the Supervisor, and the rest of the people who said that the Town didn't own the land around the Pinegrove building, until I saw the deed. I also believed the Supervisor when she said that cdbg couldn't be used for Pinegrove, until I read the cdbg site. I assumed they did their homework and knew what they were talking about.
I won't make that mistake again.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I do not agree with anything in the above letter, except for the part of letting Bob Ament do the renovations.
This charming letter is just that. Charming. From a member of the Library Board.
Take a bite out of this: Blatantly false information accounted for a lot of "yes" votes too, right? Boisterous "Vote Yes-sayers" masquerading as government & "Seniors First" committees, lost all credibility when the truth of certain things came out.
That's not charming, that's alarming.
Also, I don't remember reading/hearing anywhere that King$ Pork area was "crime ridden". It certainly wasn't on this site, so I don't know where that rumor came from.
Speaking of "Blatantly false information" from another member of the Library Board........
"Unfortunately, many of those who voted in the Senior Center referendum did not fully explore the issues."
Do you mean the "many of those" who were telling everyone that Pinegrove was "unsafe" and that the WISD owned the land around the building "did not fully explore the issues"? Because they didn't do that.
Here's the best part:
"Despite the misleading assertions to the contrary, the town does not own Pinegrove. The town owns only the building-not the surrounding land, not the parking lot, and not even access to the road. The sad reality is, we own a land-locked building that is too small for the growth in our senior population, or for any other town use."
Um, the town owns Pinegrove. The Town owns the land surrounding the building (1.9 acres), and the Town owns the parking lot, and access to the road.
Land-locked building? It has access and egress to a public street, and doesn't cross another property to do so. There is no "implied easement" over any other lot.
Pinegrove is not too small for the senior population.
The sad reality is - people actually believed this junk. If anyone was misleading, it's the people who regurgitate this blatantly false information over and over and over again.
The next time any of these people tell you something, don't believe it until you've checked it out for yourself. Obviously, rumors and innuendo rule their world. Don't let it rule yours.
Pay attention to the video at the 9:13 mark where Supervisor Heyman "wonders if Mr. Ament feels that we've treated him the same way that he's just treated us, and I can tell you that has not been the case." (Of course not......he didn't lie.)
Bob Ament, as he is leaving, comes back into the room to tell the Supervisor this: "You did accuse me of...of out to get you, and somebody's fronting me, and putting me up to this. I am a Peace Corp Volunteer - I brought something out of the goodness of my heart, and you have accused me of wanting your job, and somebody is behind me on this - that is shameful".
I can see where he's frustrated. Mike Spang tells him that the building could last another 100 years, and that "I'd be a fool not to take this...let's do this." Bob told Mr. Spang that he is "a Democrat who voted for Mary Ellen Heyman, I'm in the party, you can roll it out any way you want," and then Spang blurts out "it's politics ".
Bob says that Stephanie Aldersley told him that "the study was partially a marketing plan to try to convince voters to change their minds." Then at the end of the video Miss Aldersley says "she doesn't like being misquoted."
Welllll, Mrs. Aldersley, I don't particularly like when I am told, by YOU, a total lie. No misquote there, nosiree.
The Town tells Bob Ament personally one thing, then publicly does another thing. He said he's been misled again and again and cannot get a straight answer. All the guy wants to do is get in there and do repairs and make it nicer for our seniors, and the Town isn't letting it happen. Yet, they "say they're on board", but it doesn't look like it. Supervisor Heyman was quoted in the paper as saying that she "Feels uncomfortable reaching out to the business community...." She's accusing Bob Ament of "wanting her job" and that "somebody is behind him on this"?
*For real?*
Angry and frustrated at the lack of a commitment from the Town on this, he leaves, and the Board continues to talk about him unfavorably, and Stephanie Aldersley mumbles something about being misquoted.
The Town Board in November '08 votes to move the senior center to King$ Pork, and renovations to the KP building would commence immediately.
Residents say "use cdbg for Pinegrove", Supervisor tells media repeatedly that cdbg cannot be used for Pinegrove. Residents find out it can be used for Pinegrove.
Residents petition for a referendum, and hand all of the petitions in by mid December.
Petitions are deemed valid towards the end of December, a referendum is scheduled for February 24th.
No public hearings held to discuss senior center before the vote. Town instead dedicates time and money into mailers, automated calls, and press conferences.
Vote happens, residents vote against the lease, Town claims they won't sink any money into Pinegrove.
Town continually tells residents that the WISD owns the land around Pinegrove. One Board member actually tells residents at a meeting that the "Town only owns the building and 5 ft. around it." Deed documents show otherwise.
A month after the vote, resident Bob Ament takes on the challenge to "do something" and "move forward". Secures commitments from Target, Home Depot, Irondequoit Lawn & Landscaping, and volunteers from Cam's to renovate the inside of the Senior Center for free. The landscaping company has offered free landscaping and maintenance.
Should residents be surprised? I'm sorry to say, no. You shouldn't be surprised.
I just can't believe that the Town never conducted any studies previously....I am just stunned, honestly. That means they were going to enter into a lease for over a million dollars with NO studies at all?!? That is scary.
A resident has contacted the Town with the following documents: (The last page is a "revised" survey map with dotted lines added by the resident to show how expansion could take place at the current building, leaving ample room for parking.)
I'm sure Mr. & Mrs. Schoonmaker are wonderful people, and I'm sorry - not that they have their opinion- but that they come to their conclusions (opinions) because of misinformation spread by Town Leaders. Mr. Schoonmaker thinks that the Town only owns 5 ft. around the Pinegrove building, as Mr. Schoonmaker's letter to the I-Post recently showed. You can view that letter here.
It's one thing to have opinions on why the move is a good/bad move, it's another when you don't have all the information, or even accurate information to make an informed decision one way or the other.
It also seems that this last letter is more about the writer's personal opinion of Mr. Barone, on issues that happened in the past, instead of focusing on the issue of fixing Pinegrove temporarily.
I do agree with one part of the letter, that Irondequoit is becoming a laughingstock of the County....but not because of Richard Barone. It's the leadership that perpetuates false information, and quotes to the media filled with lies. (Can't use CDBG for Pinegrove, WISD owns land around Pinegrove, can't enlarge the footprint of Pinegrove, only owns 5 ft. around the building etc.).
The "inflammatory rhetoric" such as in the above letter where it is stated: "So the seniors you voted against "thank you" for being such fine examples of what this town should be against."
........Shows the lengths these people will go to in order to paint the "opposition" as hateful, mean spirited senior haters.
Richard Barone, and the people who petitioned, and the people who signed the petition, and the people who voted "no" are not "against seniors".
It was found around 9am this morning, and a FOI request was submitted for the other pages of this letter around 2 pm. Hopefully, in about 21 days from today, we will get the other pages. Notice the date on this letter is March 4th.
Interesting.
I wonder if this letter writer is really concerned with the Seniors, or is it more about "getting that Richard Barone and his associates who hold Town progress hostage for decades!"?
Bwaaaa haaaaa haaaaa. That is a perfect example of "inflammatory rhetoric". Too funny.
As far as "Intimidation"? Nobody does it better than your own Supervisor at 1280. "Richard Barone and his associates" can't even hold a candle to that.
Let the games begin!
Pssssst.....If I were "you", mr./mrs. letter writer, I would be careful when bleating about "holding back progress", when your very own Town Administration has refused to fix Pinegrove, and won't let a volunteer donate time and materials to fix it up a bit. Look at what the Town has let happen to the libraries. Cutting the budget funding by $100,000, and refusing to spend money to fix it, so it will necessitate a move when it gets really bad.
Luckily, there are a few wonderful residents who fixed up the Evans branch recently......for free. Check it out here.
If the Town refuses to do basic maintenance so that in a couple of years when the libraries are really bad they use the ol' "We have to move the libraries to a bigger/better/safer facility" (Kings Park) line.......then it is up to us residents to keep the two branches active, and "progressive". Meaning - I implore you to donate whatever little money you have to help the library branches stay where they are. Volunteer to help. Do what you can when you can. Visit this link to find out how to help.
Don't let this become another "Pinegrove" issue that divides the town. If you want your libraries to stay where they are? Do your part to help them stay there. The Town certainly won't help, they want the libraries to consolidate to Kings Park.
From the letter above: "Once people realize that two libraries are not a viable long term option, this will no longer confound efforts to move other things forward."
Translation: Once we let the libraries sit to fester and rot, and if we keep cutting the budget for the libraries - people won't have any other choice but to say "consolidate!" and "relocate!".
Back in February of 2008, the Supervisor decided not to pursue plans for King$ Pork because it was "too expensive".
In August of 2008, an alert resident wrote a letter to the Irondequoit Post about a July Town Board meeting that she had attended, where the agenda stated that there would be a resolution authorizing a purchase order for "expert services related to negotiations regarding the Kings Park property", and about 2 hours into the Town Board meeting, this resident found out it was for leasing space for the senior center at Kings Park.
In September 2008, there was a Town Board meeting where residents spoke at public input about their concerns over leasing, and gave ideas for relocating the senior center. The above resident spoke about needing to know more and learn more about this - more community input.
That never happened.
In November, the Town Board unanimously passed a resolution to lease space at Kings Park for the senior center for a temporary lease of 5 years maximum, with 1st year costs over $400,000, and a $1.2 million dollar price tag for the full term of the lease. For a temporary solution until a permanent facility was decided on.
Critics argued that Pinegrove could be renovated for half that amount, using CDBG funds, and Pinegrove could be temporarily used until a permanent facility was agreed upon.
Supervisor Heyman then said, numerous times, to the media, that CDBG could not be used for Pinegrove.
Articles where she states that CDBG cannot be used for Pinegrove:
That was a false statement. CDBG CAN be used for Pinegrove. Their own 2009 Budget Analysis states it, as well as the CDBG site.
(In the article, the reporter stated that "Every other school building from that era has been torn down." That is false. There are 4 school buildings from this era in West Irondequoit that are still being used. 2 are used as day care centers and have many children in them, 1 has been converted to a church and then there is Pinegrove.)
She tried to lie to the residents about CDBG funds for Pinegrove, but the residents had to double check "facts" by their own Supervisor. I find that sad.
What is also sad, and pathetic, is that almost 40 residents had to gather 1,952 signatures to FORCE the Town Board to have a vote on this issue.
From the time of the submitted petitions to the February 24th vote....no community meetings were arranged so the residents could speak out on the issue and gain more knowledge. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. They had over 2 months to hold public hearings (as they are supposed to do when using cdbg funds) but never did. They don't want you to be informed or ask questions. That was made clear on many occasions.
So, the Town went on a mailer-fest, with false information on the fliers stating things like the Pinegrove building was unsafe, and there was no room for parking or expansion. You can view the mailers here and here. Automated calls, letters sent from the Supervisor to absentee voters, press conferences with Joe Morelle offering OUR tax money in the form of a state grant, to buy "Yes" votes.
Unbelievable.
The Town Board and the Supervisor repeatedly told the media, and residents at Town Board meetings that the WISD owned the land around Pinegrove, which was another lie, because documents obtained from the County showed quite clearly that the Town owns 1.9 acres. At the last Town Board meeting in February, Stephanie Aldersley told residents that the Town only "owns the building and 5 ft. around it". You can view all of that misinformation spread by the Town Administration here.
Recently, the town has contacted Labella Associates to conduct a feasibility study for Pinegrove. You can read that here.
Labella wants $34,000 to conduct this study, and that's just an estimate, it could be more.
My questions are:
You mean to tell me that the Town never did a "feasibility" study before this?
Why did they pay Tim Poley thousands upon thousands of dollars for "consultant services"?
Supposedly, he was very familiar with Pinegrove, submitting appraisals for the property in 2003, and another report on Pinegrove in 2006, according to this letter:
You can review the FOI request and information about all the money paid to Poley here, and here,
Labella Associates should be paid out of the CDBG funding, the residents should not be stuck with this bill. Make sure that the residents of Irondequoit are not being stuck with this bill! I can just imagine her "blaming" the "small group of people" again for this. It seems that's all that ever comes out of their mouths - "It's just a small group of people."
I'm sorry, but over 2,800 residents wanted more information by voting "NO". That's not a small group. If you look at the blog above this one.....the person who wrote this letter wants to "reach" the "vast majority of residents...not involved and not informed and did not vote."
(Oh yessssss. Please do that. I'd love to put some more of your "facts" up on this blog for posterity.)
A very nice resident has offered his services, plus commitments from Home Depot and Target to renovate Pinegrove.....for FREE! It could be done by the end of March.
Instead, here is what the Supervisor said: "I can't tell you we'll be investing to that level in Pinegrove," Heyman said, "but I feel uncomfortable reaching out to the business community when we do have funds and staff that could do some of the work."
Yes, you've HAD FUNDS AND STAFF to fix up Pinegrove......for many years. You let it sit there and rot (like you're now doing with the libraries) to necessitate a move. It's obvious.
I would say I was surprised......but I'm not. Not with this crew running the Town.
It's business as usual.
Methinks the only "small group of people spreading misinformation" are the ones at 1280.
Remember that Supervisor Heyman said that CDBG cannot be used for Pinegrove, but now she might want to use it for Pinegrove. Maybe. Well, not really, but if she has to...maybe just a smidgen of cdbg. (They'd have to do renovations anyways, since they would still own the building even if they did relocate...and if WISD buys it? School taxes will surely go up for renovations.) Remember that the Supervisor, Debbie Evans, and Stephanie Aldersley told you that the Town doesn't own the land surrounding Pinegrove, they can't enlarge the footprint, and the Town only owns the building and 5 ft. around it, and then read the article where the Supervisor states that the Town has always claimed they owned 1.9 acres.
Isn't it frustrating when you try to interrupt the operation of a malfunctioning program by pressing ctrl-alt-delete, and it doesn't work? It keeps on malfunctioning? That is frustrating. I also find it frustrating when I read or hear someone say that the Pinegrove Building isn't able to be expanded, because the Town only owns the building, or the WISD owns the land surrounding the building. I find it extremely unacceptable when Town Government tries to spoon feed me that same rhetoric.
For example:
Supervisor Heyman has stated on the town website, and in her "facts sheet" that the "WISD owns the land around the building." She's had a Guest Essay in MPNnow titled, "Where Do We Go From Here?", where she states yet again that "in fact, the WISD owns the land surrounding Pinegrove."
Debbie Evans has stated in an e-mail to some residents that "we can't enlarge the footprint of the building, because we do not own the land that surrounds it. We cannot expand the parking......."
Bill Domm, assistant superintendent for business in West Irondequoit said in Dec. 2008 that "the Town purchased the building and just 3 ft. all the way around it, plus the parking lot out front for about $185,000 in the mid '70s."
Ted Schoonmaker, a senior center visitor, said in a letter to MPNnow "To expand at Pinegrove, where are you going, with only five feet all around the building to add space? It's impossible."
Folks, it's just not true.
Let me say it again.
It's. just. not. true.
3 ft? 5 ft? Where are they getting this information from? The Town?
The $185,000 purchase price is true, but the claims above about the amount of property the Town owns at Pinegrove is not.
Recently a resident made a visit to the County Offices to view any documents related to the purchase/development/deed etc., of Pinegrove. There were 6 pages, and the clerk assured the resident that this was all they had on file for this property.
The following 6 pages are what the Town has filed with the County of Monroe concerning the property at 154 Pinegrove Ave.
The deed states that the parcel is 275' wide x 300' deep.
That = 82,500 sq. ft.
1 acre = 43,560 sq. ft.
That means that the Town owns 1.9 acres for Pinegrove with the existing building on site.
The deed also states that the WISD retained the right to use the North End room (about 1,000 sq. ft. as an office for the Nature Center) rent free and this continues in perpetuity (or "forever" in 'real people' speak).
The Supervisor has said that the Town doesn't own the property around the building, but the Supervisor has also said that Pinegrove is 1.9 acres. This was on the following document, and on the town website titled "Let's Talk About Our Town.....".
How can the Town NOT own the property surrounding the building (according to the Supervisor) and own 1.9 acres (according to the Supervisor)? In which statement is she lying?
What is most frustrating, is that the option to expand or new-build was never given. Never discussed. The 1.9 acres of Pinegrove is never mentioned in the "Senior Center Facts Sheet" at all!
All we kept hearing about was how the Town wanted to lease 20,000 sq. ft. of space for seniors only at King$ Pork, and how great it is.
Residents have said that the Supervisor has said at previous meetings that the Town only owns a few feet around the building, and that as soon as you walk out the door the town owned property ends, etc.
That is not true, according to documents filed by the Town with Monroe County concerning the property at 154 Pinegrove, and according to the Supervisor herself.
1.9 acres would give you a building with enough square footage for the community (not just seniors) with ample room for parking.
The Town wanted to spend $1.2 million on a five year lease for 20,000 sq. ft. for just seniors.
Since the Supervisor likes to refer to Greece's facilities......
Greece built a two story (elevator!), 35,000 SF building at the Town Campus. The building contains community use rooms, a full service kitchen, a senior’s room, activity rooms, art room, gymnasium, elevated running track, exercise room, locker rooms, staff offices, conference rooms, support and utility areas, and a future expansion office area on the second floor.
That's for the whole community of over 90,000 people in Greece. Not just 7,000 seniors. 35,000 sq. ft. for the WHOLE POPULATION of Greece.
Meanwhile....in Irondequoit.....the Town Board, through a unanimous vote, opted for a lease of over 20,000 sq. ft. for just seniors, and they refuse to fix up the existing building, or even let a resident volunteer who has commitments from businesses for free labor/materials to fix up Pinegrove....for FREE!
Another bit of misinformation that the Town Board likes to float around is that King$ Pork is on a bus line (which is true), therefore easier for residents to access. But what they conveniently leave out is that RTS service runs down St. Paul Blvd. and services Helmer Nature Center too. Read for yourself.
I keep pressing Ctrl-Alt-Delete, but the program keeps malfunctioning.
